Episode 5: Featuring Dr. Alan Heckman

Welcome to Tales From DeSales, a DeSales University podcast series hosted by University President Fr. Jim Greenfield, in which he sits down with alumni. In this episode, Fr. Jim welcomes Dr. Alan Heckman, a 2011 alum and current faculty of DeSales University. Dr. Alan Heckman, DMSc, PA-C is a board-certified physician assistant and has been a member of the faculty since 2013. He earned his Bachelor of Science in Secondary Education, specializing in Communications, from Kutztown University in 2004, followed by a Master of Science in Physician Assistant Studies from DeSales University in 2011. In recognition of his work, Dr. Heckman received the 2011 Faculty Award from DeSales University’s Physician Assistant program. In 2024, he further advanced his education by completing a Doctor of Medical Science degree from the University of Lynchburg, focusing on Emergency Management and Global Health.

Dr. Heckman brings extensive clinical experience in emergency medicine, family medicine, cardiothoracic surgery, and critical care to his teaching. He currently instructs various courses in the Physician Assistant program, including Clinical Medicine, Pathophysiology, Pharmacology, Diagnostic Medicine, Clinical Anatomy and Physiology, Cardiology, Surgery, and Advanced Cardiac Life Support. In addition, Dr. Heckman has over two decades of experience in emergency medical services as a paramedic and is a member of the Civil Air Patrol, the United States Air Force Auxiliary, overseeing Health Services operations for the organization in Pennsylvania.

In addition to teaching, Dr. Heckman serves as the Graduate Program Director and Chair for the Department of Medical Science and Prehospital Medicine.

An active contributor to the medical field, Dr. Heckman has authored chapters in several textbooks, including those published by the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons, worked as a medical Subject Matter Expert for companies like LearningMate, and has served as an expert witness in civil cases involving medical malpractice. Dr. Heckman also regularly presents at local, state, and national conferences and is an active member of the American Academy of Physician Associates and the Pennsylvania Society of Physician Assistants.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Tales from Detales. I'm Father Jim, and this is our sixth episode. In case you've forgotten the Genesis, we started last January. We're doing this once a month with alums from the Sales University. And I'm delighted to have our summer series now. This is our sixth one, as I said, and our guest today is Dr. Alan Heckman, my friend and my colleague here at DeSales University. And the two of us are fellow alums.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

We are.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And so without further ado, we're going to have a great conversation. But Alan, would you please introduce yourself to everyone that's watching and listening to this? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

I'm Alan Heckman. I am a 2011 alumni of DeSales. I graduated here with my master's degree. Um Physician Assistant Studies. Okay. What does that hold? It's M P A S S or It's M P A S. It's a Master of Science in Physician Assistant Studies. Okay. And there's variability among PAs in the United States in terms of what that master's is called, but that's what we have it here at DeSales.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And something interesting I read that you shared with me. You were teaching in the program before you were a student in the program. That's correct. Yeah. Can you kind of let us know how you figured that one out?

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Sure. So I was a paramedic. So I started my career at an EMS as an EMT. And then I went to college. And in college, I was originally a pre-med biology major. Okay. And then I switched majors and went into education. So I have an undergraduate degree in education and I worked as a school teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

What where?

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Uh Allentown School District. Okay. So uh yeah, so I taught mostly seventh and eighth grade. Wow. And um and then I went and became a paramedic. So I was a school teacher by day, paramedics on nights and weekends. I left public education in 2005 and went to Saturny Ambulance local here and was their education director, then transitioned to Lehigh Valley Health Network, where I was teaching classes for EMS providers, but also running um programs for like the American Heart Association. A lot of classes in resuscitation, medicine, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

And so we teach a class in the PA program here called Advanced Cardiac Life Support, which is an American Heart Association program. So when I knew I wanted to go to PA school, it it was like fate that one day I was teaching a class and this woman came up to me afterwards and she said, Are you a physician? And I said, No, ma'am, I'm a paramedical. And she said, Well, my name's Terry Russo, and I'm one of the clinical coordinators in the PA program at the Sales. And at that point, I already knew I wanted to come here and I was getting prerequisites because my degree in education, I didn't have all the sciences that I needed. So um, so I uh um I put my arm around Terry and I said, You are my new best friend. So it was like another two years till I applied for the program. I applied to the program and I was accepted. And shortly after that, I got a phone call that said, Would you be interested in doing some teaching? So the summer before I matriculated here in the graduate program, I taught the advanced cardiac life support course here. Wow. So I taught that and then matriculated as a student. Okay. And obviously, if you're a student, you know, you can't teach. So while I was in the program, I did a lot of tutoring. Yeah. And uh and then the week of graduation, I remember being asked if I would consider coming on as an adjunct faculty member. So shortly after graduation, I started adjuncting here just in that course. Sure. Uh and remained as an adjunct here for about a couple of years. Okay. Then the PA program was expanding, Gambit Center was being built. Sure. And uh Wayne Stewart was the uh program director at the time. Yes. And he came to me and he said, Would you be interested in coming on to the faculty full time? Wow. And I said, No. No, wow. I I was enjoying clinical medicine. Okay. I was enjoying what I was doing. And so I said no. And I kept adjuncting, but several months later he came back again and he said, We're gonna ask you again, why are you interested in coming on? And I said to my wife, Amy, I said, I think God is trying to tell me something. And so um I came here in 2013 and I've been here a full-time faculty member ever since.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Well, amen to that. Now I'm gonna unpack some of this because we're gonna see a photo of that uh moment where you had both of those certificates in your hand, the degree. So we're gonna see that. But before we do it, um, three things that emerged from all that. One is can you tell us about the um the GPA that you had when you started college? Because you're a very intelligent um human being, but I I would like you to inspire someone listening to think um about your story. Tell us about your wife, because I'm gonna put this picture up uh of your family, and I wanted to hear about your wife and your kids, and your daughter's a student. And then the third thing is I want to hear a little bit about teaching in Allentown School District. Okay, okay, so in in that order, please.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

All right, so we'll start with college. Okay. I was not a great student in high school. Um, to be honest with you, I thought I was gonna become an actor uh at one point. You're doing great here. Thanks. Yeah, I actually was a theater teacher in Allentown. That's what I taught. I don't tell a lot of people that, but yeah, I was teaching theater at the time. Uh and so I didn't know what I wanted to do, sort of. And I took a year off when I graduated high school, and I knew that I lived in high school where? I went to Allen High School. Allen High School. Yeah, I'm born and raised here in Lehab Allen.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

So I went to Allen High School, graduated from Allen High School, and I took a gap year, and and that's when I became an EMT and started working on ambulance, and I knew I really enjoyed that. And so I started to think about a career, maybe healthcare, maybe maybe med school, something like that. But then I went to college and what college? I went to Coodstown University. And I wasn't prepared for college on a maturity level. Oh, okay. And so I went to college and I went, oh, you don't have to go to class, and you don't like whatever. And I sat in the back row and I it just I wasn't a good student. And which is very surprising. Well, yeah. So my first GPA in college was a 1.9.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Wow. Um congratulations, that's not that's not that great, but no, at least it was you know, over 1.0.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yeah. So I got a letter from the dean that says if you do this again, you're not gonna be welcome here anymore.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

And I paid for my own college education. My parents had two kids in college at the same time, couldn't afford to take care of all that. So it was like this epiphany happened, and I went, I just took all this money and wasted it, flushed it down the toilet. And it was this huge wake-up call for me at this point to go, okay. And and truth be told, I had always been sort of been told because I was never the academic through middle school and high school, and never had great grades that you know college wasn't for me, I wasn't gonna be cut out for this, I was gonna go a different path, is what people had always told me. Like, this won't be for you, you won't ever. I don't want to say amount to this, but this isn't for you kind of thing. And I thought at that moment I could either believe in that and go, look, this is what sort of validates that, or I could say, no, and I'm gonna change and I'm gonna do it my way. And so I retook every class that I got a D in, cost me a lot more money, but I graduated with honors.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

That's fantastic, which is really hard to come back from with a 1.9 GPA. Absolutely. So fast forwarding a little bit, when you get to grad school, you meet someone that's we're looking at here. Is it career?

SPEAKER_03 7:47

I actually I did not meet my wife here. We were actually married already, and I had we already had my daughter Kayla when by the time I decided to become a PA. All right. Uh my wife Amy, uh, we actually met at Dorney Park. Oh. So, and we met through healthcare. So we both worked in EMS at Dorney Park. Dorney Park has like their own first date stations. Yeah. And Amy was a student here at DeSales. Okay. And I was a paramedic at the time. In the PA program, Amy? No, well, actually, she started here in PA, but then she she transferred into nursing.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Nursing, okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

So Amy is a graduate of DeSales, she has her Bachelor of Science in Nursing from DeSales. So at the time, actually, it was Allentown College when she started here. Okay. But it had changed. So her degree is actually from DeSales, because we were DeSales by the time she graduated. So we met uh at Dorney, and uh it's a long story, but um we did not get along when we first met. She can tell you more about that, sure. And um, but over time uh things had changed, and it was actually years before we we started dating each other. Um, but it just sort of happened. We were hanging out with a group of friends together, and this group of friends spent a lot of time together, and then over one summer, the group of friends just started to dwindle a little bit further, further, further, and then it just ended up being the two of us. Wow. And after a while, we kind of looked at each other and said, I think we're dating, I think we're in a relationship. Okay, and it just that's how it evolved from there. So that's beautiful. So she's a graduate of DeSales, I'm a graduate of DeSales, and Kayla uh just finished her first semester here at DeSales. And I had the uh honor of meeting her this semester. So she's great. She's a good, she's a good kid. I shouldn't say kids, she's gonna be 20, which is gonna be 20. Who are those other two there? I don't know. Uh the kid no, so those are those are our sons. Uh Bradley's oh, the older one in the back. Okay. Uh he just finished eighth grade. He's starting high school in the fall. Okay. And the little guy in the middle there is Tyler. Okay. He just finished fifth grade and he starts middle school. So I have one in middle school, one in high school, one in college. So this photo was taken on a family vacation down in Disney. We are a Disney family, and so we we that's where we like to go to travel together. I'm in my I call that my dad hat there when I'm out there.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

But yeah, um Did you consider wearing your Mickey Mouse ears for this interview? No, I did not. I did not.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

But I I I chose that photo to kind of talk about because they're they're the they're my why for a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Um and speaking of your why, um, and that they're a beautiful family. Thank you. Um, you you and I want to get to this downtown school district because you know you that's a vocation to teach school. And I think it's a vocation um that you're very well aware of and you do it really well. Um, but it seems to me that you have really um exemplified the virtue of grit in your life, you know, and I think it's as I know it, it's defined as like the perseverance and the passion that you have for some goal. And you certainly have that, you know, and it seems to me you need people with grit teaching young people, especially in the outtown school district.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

I yes, I agree with that. Okay. Um I'm a firm believer that you can do anything you want to do. If you want it bad enough and you want to work for it. And I I tell people I'm living proof of that. Because I went to college in my first semester in college, I had a 1.9. Um, graduated with honors, I came here, I did well here in the program, and then I finished my doctorate. I graduated with a 4.0 with my doctorate. And so that to me was uh was a big moment to be able to do that. Because I would have never had thought back in high school or when I first started college that I would ever have a master's degree, let alone a doctorate, and do what well.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

So let's let's here's the master's level here. Yeah, correct? Yeah, that I have hair there. How about that? Yeah, a handsome dude. So, what are the two diplomas you have there?

SPEAKER_03 11:56

So the first is the certificate, uh, the one here on the on the right. That's the certificate from the physician assistant program. You because of when degrees are conferred, you we uh they issue a certificate, and that's where you need that to be able to sit for your board exam. So I received a certificate, and then I also received the faculty award uh here. Um, and I didn't I didn't understand the faculty award. It's an award given by the faculty to a student. And um now that I'm on the PA faculty, what we say is what is the faculty award? It's the uh it's supposed to be the award given to the student who's a joy to teach. So, which I I chuckle at now because I go, I think about who I think of as students that I would give that award to. And I go, was I really that person in my class that they wanted to give that to? But I had a good relationship with my faculty when I was here, which is why it was such a neat experience for me to be able to come back here and now be colleagues with them. I mean, Wayne Stewart was my advisor when I was here, and then I came back, and Kathy Earhart, she's been here since the first day the program started. Yeah. So and Kathy's not just a colleague, she's a she's she's an extended family member for me. And so she taught me, and now it's it's great because I tell students when they when they talk about stuff, I'm like, no, no, I I understand. I was Kathy's student too.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I understand what this program takes. And remember last year, I think it was last year at the program completion ceremony, you were the faculty that addressed the student bile. I was asked to give the keynote that. Yeah, it was it was great, it was um poignant, it was funny, it was life lessons. So you obviously have a great connection uh with the students that you're teaching, it was very obvious. Well, I try, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:37

So here at the sales we talk about connect. And so even now in the doctoral program, the doctoral program is online and it's asynchronous. But I've encouraged my adjunct faculty members to really try to do what they can to form a connection with their students. Sure. I've sort of said I want students to feel like even though they're not physically here on campus, that they still feel connected to this campus and they feel connected to the faculty. And so we have to get a little creative in how we make that experience happen.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Thank you for doing that. Yeah, but uh it's important because And can I just connect one dot, no pun intended, so that everyone understands. So you are a uh physician assistant and you teach on that faculty, in that faculty, but now you're the program director for one of our newest programs, the Doctorate of Health Science. The Doctorate of Medical Science, yeah. And with medical science, and which is all online. Can you tell us about that and the genesis of it? Sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

The Doctorate Medical Science was originally developed by a gentleman by the name of Dr. Jeremy Welsh at the University of Lynchburg back in I think 2017.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

PAs are evolving their role in healthcare. We've only been around since the 1960s, so we're still sort of in our infancy when you compare us to like nursing or physicians. And so there's a lot of PAs now that are moving into other areas of healthcare that are not necessarily providing direct patient care. Some are moving into administration and leadership roles, others are moving into academics, some are even leaving that side of healthcare and they're moving to the industry side where they're working for pharmaceutical companies and other areas. And so, in order to do that, they need additional education. PA school is very clinical. We teach you how to be a clinician, but we don't teach you how to necessarily be a healthcare leader. We don't teach you how to be an educator. So PAs recognized that they needed to go back to school to receive additional education for that.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

Because PAs are different at their master's degree than other master's degrees, we were able to move towards a doctorate. Let me explain that a little bit further. Most master's degrees are 30 to 60 credits on average. PA master's degrees tend to be around 100 credits. Our program here at the sales is 99 credits. It's grueling. They do 99 credits in two years. So this is the philosophy of our profession when we sit here and we go, well, that's like almost a doctorate. When you think about it, most doctoral degrees are about 120, 140 credits. So they were like, why aren't we moving towards that? Dr. Jeremy Wells recognized that and said, geez, we could do additional education here and sort of award a doctorate as a result of that. And so that program and that idea has sort of spread like a brush fire in recent years. They started out with a handful of programs, but now from 2017 now to 2026, we have 46 DMSE programs around the country. Correct. Wow. So there's about 322 PA programs in the United States, and now there's about 46 of these doctor medical science programs. We're the second one in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

There are 30 PA programs right now in Pennsylvania, and there was only one DMSc. We are the second DMSC uh right now in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

So as the president of the university, I thank you uh for bringing this new program because we know um new programs attract new students and you know it makes the stature and the reach of the sales university more national. So you've done a great job. And you and I was so proud of you and Bobby Marici, your colleague. We're gonna see her in a photo a little bit. Uh the two of you, when you presented that at the faculty meeting for approval, it was it was so well done.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Well, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's hard to do sometimes to present in front of your colleagues. Uh but um thank you.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

I appreciate that. Yeah, it was outstanding. But you you are so accomplished on many levels, and we're gonna get back to some of the other programs that are happening under your leadership. But you know, we all need mentors and guides in life. And tell us about this gentleman.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

That's my one of my closest friends in the world. That's Pat Brady. Okay. Um Pat was my teaching mentor, so you asked about you're a teacher. So I graduated from Critstown University and I was hired in the Allentown School District teaching middle school. Pat was my a friend of mine, but he was also my teaching mentor. He was sort of assigned to me. Um He was assigned to you. Well, that's that's kind of how it worked. Yeah. I mean, and we taught on the same area together. Pat was a music teacher, and and I was teaching theater, and I was also teaching like English and reading and other subjects as well. But um Pat and I became such great friends, and he was a true mentor to me. And he will probably be very upset if he watches this podcast to hear me talking about this. He doesn't like me talking about this, but um, he taught me more than what you learn in a college classroom or out of a textbook. He taught me very important lessons about being a teacher. So, and and lessons for life, really. So, like an example would be he would say, like, who who runs this school? Who runs the school? And you know, a a new teacher would say, Well, the principal you know runs the school, and he would say, That's not how that's not who runs this school. And he would say, the office staff and the custodial staff run this school. And he said, You always remember that. Take care of them, they'll take care of you. It was those lessons, and now I've been able to take those lessons and equate it into healthcare. And we tell my students to say, Who runs the hospital? So the CEO or the physician, I said, No, it's a nursing, nursing runs the hospital, right? Take care of your nurses, your nurses will take care of you. And so those are true.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

And so, especially since my wife's a nurse. But the the important lessons there were the subtext of any I can teach anybody how to come up with a lesson plan or do those things. He taught me all those other life lessons about how to be a great educator, how to connect with your students. Um, and to this day, I'm still in contact with students who I taught there because of those life lessons. Sure. Pat used to, we would take kids to Florida on a field trip, and he'd have to try and convince the school board why a trip to Disney World was educational. He was a music teacher, so I would think, okay, he'd write a lesson about like how they use music in the park or something like that. None of his lessons had anything to do with that. He wrote lessons on how to budget money, how to how to do time management. And so we over time I realized I wasn't just teaching these kids about the subject matter. I was teaching them how to be people, how to be adults. And that has always lived with me as I move forward because now, as I teach like PA students, I'm not just trying to train you to be a good clinician, trying to train you how to be a good person and be employable. And so those were all lessons that I learned from him. And to this day, I still use those lessons. And so he's a big part of the success I have as a teacher today. I owe a lot to him.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Well, make sure you give him a link to this. I will so he knows it. And you know, those lessons that we say here at the sales, be who you are and be that well. Yeah. And here is you, this is University of Lynchburg. Um, you have the three stripes, so we know that's a doctorate. Yeah, that's a really proud day. I enjoyed you shared with me that your wife and your kids drove down here early, drove down to Lynchburg early in the morning. Overnight. From the Lehigh overnight. Yeah. So to attend your graduate weekend. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

So my the track that I chose in my doctoral program uh had a uh like a week-long intensive experience. And so my my the doctor in medical science in emergency management and global health. I did a week-long intensive where we were in the woods doing survival medicine, wilderness medicine, all that kind of stuff. And at the end of the week, then there was graduation. Okay. The night before graduation, I believe graduation was on a Friday, my son had a concert at school. And so we, you know, we needed to be there for that. He knew that I was, you know, finishing up my doctorate. So okay, fine. But Amy said, I gotta be at both things here. We need to be, you know, so. They all went to the concert at the school that night. Then when the that was done at like nine o'clock at night, sure. Then they went back, and it's like a seven to eight-hour drive. Yes. So they went back to the house, they took care of things, they did what they needed to, and then they got in the car and they drove. And Amy drove overnight to Virginia with the kids in the car. They got to my hotel room. They came in and they slept for like two hours. Okay. And then we went to graduation. Wow. And they were there. So they all came down for graduation. And then as a family, the rest that did we we drove home then after that. I hope you drove. Yeah, I did. I did it. Well, and but no, Amy drove as well. We were there in two cars. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

So I mean, that to me was Well, that's the definition of a really good marriage if your wife did that. I mean, that's amazing. I'm a lucky man. You are a lucky man, you are. And here, you're a lucky colleague. Um, this is uh graduation this past year at the PPL Center. That's right. And you're on what's called the platform party. And what does that mean? That is a cool moment.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Okay. Um, you know, I can remember being hired here and being sitting out and uh, you know, and being on the faculty, which is great. You know, it's wonderful. But to be at a point now where I'm working as a leader here at the university, you get to see things from a different perspective. And so I'm able to share in this moment now with some of my colleagues here, and these are important people. And I unfortunately you know, Kathy Earhart's not in this photo, she was unable to attend this year, but she's another important person that should be there because um these folks are not just leaders here at the university that I'm able to work collaboratively with, they're also my friends, and I think tell us who they are. So the the I'll say the young lady over here on the right-hand side is Bobby Marici. Bobby Marici is the assistant PA program director. Yes, and she's also someone who helped me put together the DMSc program. And she's now adjunct faculty in the DMSc program as well. Okay. Bobby also has three stripes on her um robe there because Bobby earned her doctorate at University of Lynchburg as well. And so she graduated, I think, a semester after I did, but it was great because we were able to commiserate together and share that experience together. Uh, in the middle there is uh Ethan. Ethan is the um now director of the physical therapy program here as well. Okay. Um Ethan is a doctor doctor, uh, because he has an EDD as well as his doctor of physical therapy, and it's great to hear ideas from Ethan because Ethan specializes in technology with education. Yeah, and I'm running an online program. So it's been great to kind of talk about some stuff. And then Ethan and I also did the Lveic Leadership Institute you know experience together as well. And then Jackie O over here on the side, she's running graduate nursing. Uh and we went to school together at six. Actually, I just heard that recently. I just heard that recently.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

She's held up better than I.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Well, it was funny. She and I were just having a conversation actually earlier and we were discussing age, and I won't reveal Jackie's age, but I was not uh that's you go right ahead. I know better. Okay. Well, I I she's she appears much younger than than what she is. And I love this too because the three of us over here on on the left side here, we run the three doctoral programs here at this university.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

And so it's great to have colleagues that I can go to and say, how do you do this in your program and what what works well, what's best practices for you. Sure. But what's neat about it is that we share a lot of things, but then there's also a lot of things that are very unique and specific to our programs. And it's great to work collaboratively with colleagues in other areas just to help figure out what's the best way to do things here. And so I I'm I love the fact that there's three doctoral programs here at DeSales, and I'm proud to say that I'm one of the people that was able to bring a new doctoral program here.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

And just when you thought that was enough to have a successful career in process, now you've brought on another program, which is the Bachelor of Science in Emergency Medical Services.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Okay. And what is that about? That is a degree completion program for paramedics. Paramedics in the United States right now, some do have an associate's degree, but most are trained through a certificate program. And then it's fine if that's the job that you want. If you want to be the bedside paramedic, that's great. That's that's you have all the training that you need. But there are paramedics that are trying to advance. And right now in healthcare, if you don't have a college degree, it's very hard to advance in this world. When you think about healthcare in general, there's a lot of people, there's a lot of roles in healthcare, and most of them have a degree associated with it. So you think of the roles that are more certificate-based. You know, you have like your medical assistants and people like that. Well, paramedics have sort of been thought of to be maybe at that level. But the truth of the matter is they're true healthcare professionals. Oh my god. Um, they're giving medications, they're doing minor surgical procedures, they're doing all kinds of stuff in the back of that ambulance or the back of that helicopter.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Front line.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Yep, that people don't realize they are not ambulance drivers that they've been fighting that stigma now for like 60 years. They are true healthcare professionals. However, they're not treated as that because they are a certificate trained person and not a degree trained person. And so what they're trying to do is fight for that seat at the table to be part of the decisions that are being made so they can advance themselves and they need a piece of paper to do that. There are over 700 accredited paramedic programs in the United States, but there's about maybe 30 or less bachelor's programs available to them. And so and they're sparse, they're spread out all over the place. So, what we've done here at DeSales is we said, well, let's recognize you for the education that you have, and we're giving them college credit for that. And then through our adult studies program, we're able to bring them to DeSales. And when I say bring them to DeSales, be a student here, they don't physically need to be here. And we're gonna help them turn that into a bachelor's degree. That's correct. So they have options for advancement and have trying to get people to understand that this is not a transactional degree in that you earn a degree, you get this job, you make this money. This is a transformational degree. Same with the doctor of medical science. PAs are not instantly making more money because they have a doctorate. But it will open doors for you that may not have been available or open to you before. And because of that, now you have so many other options out there. In the world of EMS, paramedics, you either stay a paramedic, you move into education, you move into leadership, uh and that's kind of it. And so you you're kind of, you know, you're not really sure where where you're gonna go. And even if they move into those areas of leadership or education, they don't receive any a lot of training in that. Right. And so we set people up for failure sometimes. We designed this degree here with the intention of what are the courses that they need to make them successful in these areas. I didn't want to just put together a degree that was fluff and package it and say, here you go, here's your piece of paper. I wanted them to have the tools uh that they need in order to be successful into those roles that they're gonna move into. And so it was very intentional with how we design this. The beauty of this program now is it's very individualized, where from an advising standpoint, we sit down with one of these folks and go, okay, what's your goal? Tell me what you want to do with this degree. And then from there, we're able to advise you on what track to take or what courses to take to really get you to where you want to be. I don't want it to be just a blanket degree. I want it to be very specific. I want to help people grow.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yeah, and that's that's engaging the adult learner. Dr. Alan Heckman, uh, we are now at the conclusion of this. Yeah, can you believe it? Yeah, you you have wowed us and and time has flown. But just what else would you like to share about um you, your experience, or advice you would like to give to our listeners from Tales from DeSales? I would say never give up. Never give up.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Uh don't ever let anybody tell you you can't achieve what you want to achieve. I am living proof that you can start out college with a D average and graduate with honors and earn a doctorate. And I tell people I'm not necessarily the smartest person in the room, but what I have is grit. And if you've got that, and if that's God's plan for you, then you you're unstoppable.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Amen. Well, you're definitely the smartest person in this interview, and it has been an honor and a delight. I'm proud of you, and I'm so gratified to be your colleague. Thank you. And I'm okay, thank you.